Michael Pitt and his Pagoda
By Chris Rolls Conducted March 8, 2007, 09:35 PM

Michael Pitt of Pagoda discusses lazy Americans, not mixing the acting business with the pleasure of music, and working with Thurston Moore.

Pagoda
MP3: Hey...so hey, thanks for talking to me.

Michael: No, man. Thanks for talking to me.

MP3: By the way, I did a short article on Pagoda not too long ago once I had heard some of the music, and I was pretty excited. It's really nice that you've taken the time to do some press.

Michael: Oh, cool, man.

MP3: Unfortunately, as I was getting questions ready, I started looking at the front cover of CNN today. I don't know if you've taken any time to look at it recently, but there's a rash of strange things like squealing pigs and [laughs] here's a new story about a woman who's been hiccupping for 24/7 for a month. This is all very important information.

Michael: That's what's on CNN?

MP3: Yeah, that's what's on the front cover of CNN, my friend.

Michael: That's America for you.

MP3: Yeah. Well, I was listening to your music and there's the song "Amego." And it tosses around, you know, some gray, sort of blank references to post-9/11 life here in the US. For instance, the thin veil that is the war on terror, or political doublespeak regarding immigration laws and a host of other issues. And I am interested to know, would you consider the Pagoda album to be an extension of your own political commentary?

Michael: I mean, I think that there's a certain amount of separation you should keep with politics and the music, but yeah. I mean, I don't know, I was here when the buildings fell. It was snowing building debris in Brooklyn and everyone knew someone who had passed and basically no one in New York is really for the war. It happened here and people who didn't even go through it are deciding that they want to go to war and steal oil and kill culture.

MP3: So I mean, you're saying it's almost impossible for you to separate it, those tragic events and everything that happened since then?

Michael: I think that's the problem. I think everyone separates it, you know what I mean? I think that there's a lot of shit going on right now that people don't--they don't pay attention to, I think.

MP3: Yeah. I agree wholeheartedly. And did you feel that you would be doing an injustice to yourself creatively by separating it out?

Michael: Yeah. I mean, it's like pretending everything's OK. You know? It's like sitting back on your recliner and watching whatever stupid TV shows they've got going on right now. America, man, they're not giving information. I don't think Americans are stupid, I do think that they can be lazy. I know that I can be lazy when it comes to decoding what's going on, but it's not very accessible, especially in the news. You know, you hear about, like, a cat in the tree on the corner of Bushwick and Broadway and--

MP3: And that's news.

Michael: Yeah. Like, I was out of the country for five months. I came back, I looked at the TV, you know, I was in Japan, Morocco, Italy, and I think France. And I came back, and it was when all that shit was going down in Lebanon. And I was really interested in what the hell was going on, and they showed about 30 seconds of it, of some things blowing up, and then the rest was football.

MP3: The need to not separate out reality in your music, do you find it to be a cathartic experience for yourself and simultaneously a way to either commiserate with your contemporaries or peers or to actually provide some insights?

Michael: Whoa, hold on.

MP3: I'm sorry.

Michael: No, it's all right, man.

MP3: Let's put it this way: Are you sharing, do you feel, or preaching?

Michael: I don't think I'm preaching. I don't think I'm in any position to preach, to tell you the truth. I'm trying to just shed light on whatever little information I have, you know what I mean? I think that a lot of the music industry is dominated by rap stars. And these kids, they listen to everything that these guys say. Everything. And all they've got to do is say four words about Darfur to create awareness. I think sometimes artists, especially rap artists, they don't give props to what's going on in America, you know, or what's going on outside America or even where they're from.

MP3: So in other words, since you have more visibility than the average person, then to some extent it is your responsibility to communicate your feelings? For instance, you mentioned Darfur.

Michael: I mean, what I tried to do in the album was show the time in which it was recorded, you know. Politically show the time in which it was recorded. And hopefully not, you know, not preaching anything, because that's never my intention because I don't know a lot of the information. I go on my instincts, and my instincts say that things are bad.

MP3: I agree.

Michael: Bush is fucking bad, man.

MP3: You mentioned a lot of traveling. How do you feel that that's impacted your view of the United States?

Michael: Well, I thought when I traveled I would learn about Europe. And I felt like I got more of an education on America.

MP3: Because people actually discuss American politics in Europe?

Michael: If you get to travel for any extended amount of time out of this country, you see that America's this bubble. They control the media, they withhold information, and it's all self-centered. In the sense where, like, when me and my girlfriend, when we travel and we turn on the news, there's so many times where we're sitting in front of the news, like, crying, seeing things in other countries we had no idea was going on. And then not only seeing massacres or something, seeing them from four or five different perspectives, like the Japanese news, you know, and what the French had to say about it. In America they talk about Britney Spears shaving her head. It's sad. I fucking love this country. I think this country is amazing. I think what it stands for is amazing. But I feel like I've gone off track here.

MP3: I think travel can really make you see how crazed and hypocritical and frightening life can really be here.

Michael: When I first came to New York I was homeless for a while, you know, when I was a kid. And I thought I had it pretty bad. I thought I had a pretty rough time. And then I went to Morocco, and that's not even that bad, I came back to New York and I looked at it, like, completely different. I mean, the bums were walking around with dollar bills hanging off their heads, you know. Do you understand my point?

MP3: I do. That as desperate as things may seem here, they're significantly worse other places.

Michael: Yeah. Well, you know, people have it bad here if they're hungry, you know. But have you ever been thirsty, you know?

MP3: Yeah. With no water in sight.

Michael: This has been a very productive interview, so.

MP3: I think it's incredibly productive. Let's talk about your music a little bit. You've been doing this for a while, and I'm curious if you had any reservations or sort of odd feelings about maybe people grabbing on to you as a focal point for this music.

Michael: As a focal point? What do you mean?

MP3: Because of your presence in acting. People might not be able to just accept what they're hearing for what it is and not think about all these other issues, you know, you in particular.

Michael: Yeah. I definitely thought about that because I guess that's most likely [what] I would think if I was in that situation. But it's been good for me because it's made me look at myself and about being judgmental. In the end the music speaks for itself. If you like the music, great. If you don't, don't fucking buy it. You know what I mean?

MP3: Yes.

Michael: I know the work that I put into the music. I know the work that all the musicians that I've worked with put in. It's a pure thing. No one's living like a rock star over here or even a movie star, for that matter.

MP3: There is a note that you put online about it being a three-year battle getting these recordings out. What was it that made it such a battle for you to get this music out to the world?

Michael: For me it was trying to find someone who was interested in the music and not exploiting me as an actor. That was really hard. That that took a lot of time and all the opportunities that maybe I could have being an actor, I went against. I produced it with a producer in Italy that no one knew... I guess what I'm saying is I didn't go to, like, a huge label and say, "OK, you know, come on, hook me up with some recordings or hook me up with musicians." Like, the funniest thing I hear, what people say is like, "Oh, did he write it?"

MP3: Like, as if people would expect you to be a prepackaged thing.

Michael: As if--yeah.

MP3: Like there's a writer behind you.

Michael: Yeah. I don't know. Or I guess a lot of artists...don't write their material. I just do what I do.

MP3: I'm sure if you did decide to just say, "I want to be a band and I want to get it on a label, and market the hell out of me," that's probably something that you could do.

Michael: Well, I don't know because I never tried, you know what I mean? I know that from my films I'm not, like, doing X-Men over here. You know I've had opportunities to do stuff like that, but I'm uninterested in it. I'm interested in doing stuff that for me is challenging and isn't full of propaganda--a lot of times I feel like I'm stupid, you know, because, you know, you--it's hard. Like, it's hard saying no to shit sometimes.

MP3: Oh, you mean you feel stupid for not saying yes...

Michael: Sometimes I wish I didn't give a fuck. I wish I didn't care and I could just be a pig in shit and just make a shitload of money and fucking buy an island and fly all my friends there and, you know. I don't know.

MP3: But it is your own moral dilemma that keeps you from doing that?

Michael: Yeah, either that or stupidity or insanity. I don't know. You pick. I'll probably have a clear idea of that when I'm older.

MP3: Well, I think if you can steer clear of doing anything with George Lucas then you're probably OK.

Michael: Yeah.

MP3: You worked on Last Days, the film. And for many people that was probably the first opportunity to see you as a musician, as an artist. And I'm just curious: From an acting perspective, was it difficult for you to use material that you had written yourself from your own place, from you, for a character that was a fictionalization of another human being? Do you know what I mean?

Michael: Yeah. I mean, it was confusing and it was something that initially I wasn't going to do. Like, what I decided was, when I started that film, is that the entire film was improvisation. There was no script. There was a 12-page map. So what I decided to do was, like, whatever music would come out would just come out. So if there was a scene where that character was playing in a room, you know, I would just make it up there on the spot like he was riffing. I did seven or eight takes of that...I was singing "mac and cheese." And I did that on purpose because I didn't--I'm not sure as the actor I was really 100 percent--like, I found myself confused sometimes about how to play this part because there was that gray area. Like, is it him? Is it inspired by him? And I didn't want to hear fans, you know, thinking that I was trying to benefit my career as a musician, because that was something that I held really fucking dear. So, the last take Gus Van Sant came up to me and he was like, "C'mon, play that song that you play." And I was like, "No, I don't want to play that song." He got me to do it. I did it. I didn't think they would use it. And then I saw it in the cut, and then I was still reluctant about it, and then Thurston Moore was like, "I think you should keep it." So, for me having Gus Van Sant and Thurston Moore saying, "Hey, it should stay in," I'm like, "OK. All right. Whatever." You know?

MP3: Yeah, those are two good people, I imagine.

Michael: They're two people I never really even dreamed I'd be working with...

MP3: I assume--or maybe not--but were you a fan of Thurston and Sonic Youth before you met him?

Michael: Oh, yeah. I had a cassette tape of Daydream Nation or--I think it was Goo. And there was no label on it...I found it. And I listened to it for months but I had no idea what band it was. But it opened my brain.

MP3: Has Thurston Moore in a way been able to help deflect some of the--what did you say earlier? The--I don't want to say, you know, rapists, but--

Michael: Deflect what?

MP3: You know, like, parasites. Industry people who would potentially want to, as you said, take advantage of you for being an actor rather than a musician. Is Thurston a good role model? Let's put it that way.

Michael: For me, yeah. For me Thurston...when you meet someone you revere or you look up to or you're a big fan of theirs, like, I've noticed it can go one way or the other. It can diminish it, or it can grow...with him it grows. Like, I mean, there's not a lot of guys like Thurston.

MP3: I'm sure your schedule's a little hectic, but are you going to be taking this out on the road this year?

Michael: Yeah. What year is it?

MP3: It is now 2007.

Michael: Yeah.

MP3: Cool. So we can actually look forward to seeing Pagoda live outside of New York City?

Michael: Yeah. I mean, I think we're going to stick with the East Coast because everyone in the band's got jobs. We all got to work. And so we're going to stick with the East Coast for now, and then I think hopefully in the summer we'll hit the West Coast and then Europe.

MP3: Great. Well, I really hope you come out to San Francisco.

Michael: Oh, is that where you're at?

MP3: Yeah, it is.

Michael: All right. Well, yeah, man, I love that town.

MP3: Yeah, it's a great place to be.

Michael: Cool, man.

MP3: Take care, all right?

Michael: All right. You, too.